Thursday, March 29, 2012

The ongoing saga of feeding Saga


Saga has thin soles. Even after 5 months in shoes, which was supposed to help him grow sole (???), he’s got thin soles. Thin soles means that he bruises very easily – and thus, he’s been constantly lame-ish for… well, pretty much forever, it seems.

A little research on the Interwebs seems to indicate that thin soles caused by two things – genetics and/or diet. I can’t seem to find any research that shows there are specific lines where the horses have thin soles (diagnosed on x-ray), but genetics seems to be the most accepted reason for having thin soles. Whether or not genetics are playing a role in the ongoing lameness issue, I don’t know, but certainly improving a horse’s diet can’t hurt.

But the diet problem is extremely perplexing. I have three other horses that eat the same hay and get nearly the same diet (or used to get exactly the same diet), and they all have good soles and no ongoing lameness issues. So why is Saga having problems???

(I should note that last fall I figured out that changes in alfalfa every 2-3 weeks were causing growth rings in Saga’s feet, and that when the hay was changed every ~3 months there would be another event line. Since then I have stopped feeding alfalfa, switched to unmolassed beet pulp, and managed to secure about 450 bales of the same hay. The feed-related growth rings have all but disappeared, although he does have events lines where shoes were put on or he was trimmed.)

I recently decided to change feed, from his unmolassed beet pulp with a mineral supplement to a beet-pulp-based complete “senior” feed. The NSCs of the senior were only 2% higher than the beet pulp, and overall the feed provides a lot of extra stuff (probiotics, extra fat, and extra protein). Since Saga tends to a bit of a hard keeper, I figured it might help him keep weight on. Besides, Cash is on this feed and it somehow (mostly) cleared up his ongoing diarrhea. Still not clear on why, but it worked.

So I started transitioning Saga to the new senior feed over the course of last week. Since I’ve been turning the boys out for an hour or two each night/early morning on grass, I’ve been checking everyone’s digital pulse to make sure they’re not getting too much. Everything was fine… until I got up to about 3 lbs of the new feed. Saga’s digital pulse kept getting stronger with each feeding, despite being taken entirely off grass. Not surprisingly, he was lame for my jumping lesson. 

The change in feed clearly caused the increase in digital pulse, which may have caused a minor laminitic episode and increased sole sensitivity (NOTE: he’s got no rotation anywhere, I had him x-rayed).  It’s possible that he also bruised his soles out in the pasture stepping on a rock or whatever – without hoof testers, I don’t know if his soles are sore.  But the feed change may be related to the soundness issue.

So, I took him off the new feed and went back to beet pulp and the mineral supplement, which is actually a “light” feed that is fed at a rate of about 2 lbs/day. I’ve had a few folks suggest an alternative supplement with more protein (an actual ration balancer, as opposed to what I use now) to see if that helped his feet at all. I picked some up today, so we’ll see if that makes any difference. I also put him on Farrier’s Formula (yeah, I know, I’m DESPERATE) about two weeks ago. No obvious difference yet, but hope springs eternal, right?

Frankly, I’m running out of feed options. It’s pretty clear that he’s very sensitive to changes in feed. If sugar/starch is causing the thin soles and therefore the lameness, the only way I can get his total NSCs lower is to soak his hay. But his hay is only 8.8% NSCs, so I’m not sure how much of a benefit it would really be. Besides, I feed free-choice hay, and soaking hay for everyone is not terribly practical.
Does anyone else have any suggestions? About the only thing I haven’t done is to send off the hay and beet pulp analysis tags to an equine nutrition place and have them mix up a custom supplement. Hell, maybe I should try it?

22 comments:

  1. Jeez Saga! Give Jen a break!!!! That is extremely perplexing.

    I'd go for the custom supplement. I mean at this point, why the heck not?

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  2. Would you like an alternative hypothesis?

    This is from James Welz (Hoof Help Online): Many horses that are shod have have their soles cut flat by the farrier. This leaves the sole depth very thin around the edges of the hoof but very thick right at the apex of the frog (where the hoof would normally be concave). The circumflex artery is right under this area of super thick sole and gets choked off from the pressure thus cutting off the blood supply to the rest of the sole corium- resulting in sole that does not grow.

    His solution is to gently pare away the excess material right around the frog only- paying special attention to the area right at the apex. Relieve the pressure on the artery and the rest of the sole should have enough blood supply to grow normally.

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    1. Interesting theory, thanks!

      I know the sole thinness is not caused by having it pared away. He had thin soles when I bought him 3 years ago, he had them on x-ray last October (after 18 months out of shoes, with his soles never being touched), and he still has them now after 5 months in shoes. His soles are not being trimmed at all when he is trimmed or shod. The entire sole is 5-6 mm on all feet - it's not thicker or thinner in any one place.

      Any other ideas?

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    2. Smaz-You have such great insight. Paring away along the frog area..hmmmm? Apex is at the tip of frog?

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    3. I'm not saying that this is definitely the cause behind his thin soles, but if you get the diet balanced and his soles still aren't improving it's something to think about.

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  3. I have been amazed at the foot my ottb grew in the last 18 months of barefoot - he appeared to be in no way a candidate for this style of care at the beginning.

    It's a sample size of "1" so I couldn't tell you if any horse could do it. But here are his lifestyle notes if it helps -

    Formerly: Box stall, alfalfa, shod every 5, Purina ration balancer. Feet were "tb feet". Not the worst but clearly large with thinner walls and soles.

    Barefoot start: Box stall w/ shavings, paddock t/o at night. Bermuda am, alfalfa pm, 3# Strategy. Took shoes off and horse was good in the arena but even after close to a year was not really comfortable on gravel or roads.

    Current: 30x40 pen no shavings, just hard native ground. Bermuda 24/7, some rice bran. Walks down the asphalt road frequently and now over gravel of all types. After a few months the walls are thicker and he goes over ANYTHING.

    My coach says that their feet will adapt to match the surface they live on, but anything rougher will need shoes or boots. This terrain change and road work seems to be a big part of my horse's success.

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    1. Lauren, Saga is out 24/7 on a dirt and small gravel track. He also has a sandy area, some pea gravel by the water trough, and the area under the barn has shavings.

      I'm hesitant to take him on the road now at all as he is short, even in boots. SO FRUSTRATING!

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  4. My tb went from "he has to have shoes" to happily barefoot over the last two years. My farrier recommended some type of hoof cast stuff that was impractical for someone living 3 1/2 hours away from the farrier, so I just removed the shoes and said lets see what happens.

    He had the typical (?) shelly tb feet at the start, and would die (or kill me) rather than walk over gravel. Very ouchy. I worked him up to walking on hard surfaces slowly, but still there were lots of white line issues, chipping and thrushyness.

    After reading Rockley Farms book, I started supplementing magnesium (citrate) and treating the frogs with Veterycin (the gel - it sticks in there really well). It's been about six months now and the farrier who thought he's never go without shoes is thoroughly impressed.

    (I'm always singing the praises of these two products, so if I haven't already mentioned them, and you want more info on the magnesium, let me know)

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    1. I have Durasole, but haven't tried Veterycin. I'll have to look into that.

      I supplement with 3 tbsp MgOx/day and have been doing so for ~6 months. Doesn't seem to be changing anything...

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  5. "I have three other horses that eat the same hay and get nearly the same diet (or used to get exactly the same diet), and they all have good soles and no ongoing lameness issues. So why is Saga having problems???"

    Jen, all I'd say is that having other horses who are fine doesn't mean that its not nutrition that's the problem - annoyingly enough! I've had a "canary in the coalmine" too - the consolation is that they teach you stuff that the other horses don't :-)

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    1. Can I trade in my canary for something more sturdy, like a parrot? ARGH!

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  6. Oh Saga....if only we could figure this out!
    I perhaps could help with the nutrition stuff. I learned to do rationing in a equine course (which is exactly what the equine nutritionist do). I'd be able to give you the stats he's getting, and the stats he actually NEEDS- including an increase in protein and a decrease in sugars. But I'd need the weight of each feed he's getting, the brand and type of feed..and a couple more things.
    Chuck me a e-mail if you want me to give it a try.
    alicia.waldersee@hotmail.com

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    1. Ooooh, would you please? I've got dozens of spreadsheets with calculations everywhere, but I'd LOVE another set of eyes on it. Let me get that to you in the next few days. Thanks in advance!!!

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  7. Smazourek, I've never heard that before!! I'll have to put that in my knowledge bank.
    However, Jen stated earlier that she has radiographs that indicate that Saga has what, 3mms of sole? Can't remember. I assume several angles were taken, so would that officially rule this hypothesis out?

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    1. I don't think this would show up in an x-ray.

      The bottom of the coffin bone and corium is concave, so a thick, healthy sole should also be concave. If the sole is flat then that concavity under the coffin bone has been filled in to make it that way. If he had universal sole thinness his feet would still be concave.

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    2. I'll have to post new pics of his feet - I'll be interested in what you have to say about the concavity. His feet, all four of them, are basically flatter than a pancake.

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  8. My sensitive flower of a TB has done really well with some Keratex/Durasole to help him out. I don't have the money for X rays or anything right now but it seems like the minute his poor little hoofies hit gravel he's walking on glass, so thin soles are suspected. Putting shoes on and using Keratex (farrier used Durasole on him once and even though I didn't repeat it because I didn't have any it did seem to help) has made most of his ouchyness go away. Unless I'm late with getting the farrier out for his trim. As I am now. Due to circumstances of losing my wallet and the bank won't give me my money without a debit card or identification, which were both in my wallet :( Problem will be fixed this weekend and he's getting his trim ASAP next week. Monday if possible, Tuesday at the latest.

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  9. Look into Californiatrace.com, make sure it would be OK to feed b/c of selenium levels. Then, you could potential eliminate any additional feed, other than hay/flax (if u do flax). This is supposed to be a great trace mineral supplement for horses w/ feed issues, so they still get what they need. That may help in his feed/diet issue. Also, I've started up our road walking, taking it slowly as Laz can handle. I hand walk or ride him down about a mile, 3x a week. He has bruising on one hoof still..so, we too, are missing something.... I feel your frustration. It's just about finding out WHY. Also, what about getting Saga a busy horse net, cramming it w/ hay, dunking in water and then hanging up? Would that make soaking easier???

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    1. KES, he's getting Farrier's Formula and TC 30% right now, in addition to a magnesium supplement. That may change, we'll see. The problem with walking Saga anywhere is that he's short on the LF, even with boots. I was taking it slowly, but suddenly he's really really uncomfortable. Dumb me for trying to change his feed.

      He does get hay nets when they're up for bad weather; otherwise hay gets fed on the ground or in slow feeders. The biggest problem with soaking hay is that it gets so hot here, things mold within hours (it's why I can't soak his beet pulp for more than about 30 minutes anymore). Stuff literally starts to ferment! Yuck!

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  10. Jen, my advice is to buy a consult with Dr Eleanor Kellon. As far as I've heard, she's the current authority on horse nutrition problems. I know she's got online classes (which you might enjoy, since you're well on your way to being a full-fledged nutrition nerd), but she also does consultations.

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    1. Funder, thanks. I just sent her email asking about a private consult. I'm sort of at my wit's end, if you hadn't noticed!

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