tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post7285817031746263037..comments2024-03-05T09:22:39.828-06:00Comments on Wyvern Oaks: And then suddenly...jenjhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01737679332792618499noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-69055148334015595262012-09-14T15:09:14.062-05:002012-09-14T15:09:14.062-05:00I hope the new farrier is just what Saga needs to ...I hope the new farrier is just what Saga needs to have happy hooves.Terryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13944121836337072178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-24383433649268356272012-09-13T22:04:42.651-05:002012-09-13T22:04:42.651-05:00Some more info on rings in the foot and what is ha...Some more info on rings in the foot and what is happening internally can be found here:<br />http://www.laminitisresearch.org/downloads/chrispollitt_7_Clinical_Signs_of_Laminitis.pdf<br /><br />Specifically, this:<br />"The normally straight papillae become kinked, but the basal cells of the coronary epidermis usually continue to elaborate hoof wall, albeit more slowly and in a distorted direction. The kink imposed on the papillae is reflected in the hoof wall tubules: they are kinked too. After the acute episode the<br />coronet usually recovers to some extent and produces hoof tubules with a more correct<br />orientation. However, the kinked tubules; remain in the hoof wall until they grow out at the<br />ground surface. Kinked hoof wall tubules can be seen in sections of chronically foundered<br />feet post mortem (Figure 7.10). A groove in the hoof wall, corresponding to the zone of<br />kinked tubules, is visible on the surface of the hoof wall. The depth of the groove gives some indication of the severity of the acute episode."<br /><br />Any growth rings or grooves are a sign that for a moment in time, those laminae were weakened. We can do what we want externally, but internally, that groove is still there until it grows out. Those laminae are still stretched and those horn tubules are still bent inside, even if the outside looks flat. <br /><br /><br />Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15902291220984883182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-9358274350861483892012-09-13T21:49:21.604-05:002012-09-13T21:49:21.604-05:00Stupid Blogger won't let me reply to any curre...Stupid Blogger won't let me reply to any current posts, so I'm going to start a new one. It seems (as usual) that it depends on what the horse's issue is, and I can see your point and Andrea's as well. <br /><br />In my extremely non-professional opinion, rasping the hoof wall will remove any growth rings which could be jamming the hairline, potentially slowing down the growth of the hoof, and making it far too easy for the new growth to deviate from the ideal path of growth.<br /><br />Relieving stress from the hairline is important because that's one of the main arteries, and if the hairline is jammed, the artery is constricted and the supply of blood flow is restricted. I try to relieve that when and where it's necessary and in turn the jammed hoof wall will relax and help re-establish that good blood flow. <br /><br />Since that the lamina grows from the hairline and the hoof wall grows from the lamina (from the inside out), I don't think that rasping the hoof wall is a dangerous thing to do. If for some reason the hoof wall is thinned too much, the lamina will replace the wall from the inside out.<br /><br />Again, just my experience with my one horse and the before and after pictures make me a believer (for Lilly's specific issues). Saga isn't Lilly, but perhaps a little bit of rasping is just what he needs to get his hoof on the right track. :)in2paintshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15721328264615241612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-77477047983448847872012-09-13T20:38:50.745-05:002012-09-13T20:38:50.745-05:00"When the new growth comes in, it's just ..."When the new growth comes in, it's just going to follow the old path, but by slowing rasping the hoof wall into a healthy shape, the new growth can come in that same way."<br /><br />This is not necessarily true. A horse that is metabolically compromised or on a crap diet may still put out weak, flared growth no matter what you do to the hoof wall. If the laminae are weak internally, and it isn't corrected, rasping the outer hoof wall will only thin the outer hoof wall and create an increasingly unstable hoof. Removing the mechanical issue at hand doesn't necessarily mean removing hoof wall - a properly applied roll or bevel will do exactly the same thing without the risk of overly thinning the wall. That being said, there is a time and a place for wall thinning, and there are many roads to the top of the mountain. Whatever works for the individual.<br /><br />Just because a hoof wall is currently rasped straight (or is straight by itself) doesn't mean that it won't flare if something happens. All hooves are born straight, but they hardly ever stay that way. If they did, our jobs would be SO dang easy!!<br /><br />Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15902291220984883182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-7000990056905508452012-09-13T20:27:00.597-05:002012-09-13T20:27:00.597-05:00I hear what you're saying about rasping the wa...I hear what you're saying about rasping the walls, but I truly don't understand it. The laminae are still weak and stretched on the inside, regardless of what the outside of the wall looks like. And the wall follows the laminae, so rasping the wall shouldn't affect how the laminae attache, especially that high up.<br /><br />The only way I can see rasping the wall would make a difference is to rasp the edge of the hoof way back to the sole, to take all the pressure off hoof wall (and therefore the laminae) and stop having them pulled out away from the rest of the hoof.<br /><br />Of course, Nic at Rockley Farm rasps neither the wall NOR the toe, and those rehab horse's feet grow out perfectly every time. I wish I could get her magic formula at my house, really I do!<br /><br />I am truly glad that your method has worked for Lilly. I am just hoping that the new farrier can help Saga grow the hoof that's right for him, since nothing else I've done seems to have made a difference one way or the other.jenjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01737679332792618499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-22584984476715591052012-09-13T20:03:33.103-05:002012-09-13T20:03:33.103-05:00SB, that bump is where the laminae start to pull a...SB, that bump is where the laminae start to pull away from the hoof wall. It's been there pretty much since I got him, despite ongoing attempts to allow it to grow out all the way down. <a href="http://pieceofheaven1951.blogspot.com/2011/10/barefoot-no-more.html" rel="nofollow">Here's what his foot looked like about a year ago</a>, when we first went back to shoes. I have pics from further back, but his feet have been that way, like, forever.<br /><br />There's a really good pic of what Saga's feet would look like if they weren't in shoes on the <a href="http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-importance-of-looking-at-legs-not.html" rel="nofollow">Rockley Farm blog</a>. Fortunately for that horse, the hoof capsule grew out all the way to the ground at the new angle. Saga's just seems to stick right about 1/3 of the way down, no matter what I do. SO FRUSTRATING.jenjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01737679332792618499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-15347507889577417472012-09-13T16:15:39.535-05:002012-09-13T16:15:39.535-05:00Don't fear the rasped hoof wall! :) I know th...Don't fear the rasped hoof wall! :) I know this is a point of contention where horse people are concerned, but sometimes it's just what needs to happen to get things fixed. Since you didn't rasp it for over 2 years and he still has that bulge, it sounds like rasping is what it'll take to get rid of it. When the new growth comes in, it's just going to follow the old path, but by slowing rasping the hoof wall into a healthy shape, the new growth can come in that same way. At least that's what my trimmer taught me and it has worked WONDERS on Lilly's hooves. If you have a healthy hoof, you don't need to rasp the wall, but in Saga's case, it sounds like the best option. <br /><br />I'm just glad to hear he's sound!in2paintshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15721328264615241612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-25452266746350406812012-09-13T16:08:12.579-05:002012-09-13T16:08:12.579-05:00The shoes look ok, the hoof looks wretched. Any id...The shoes look ok, the hoof looks wretched. Any idea where/what the bump even comes from? Yikes. <br /><br />Glad he's sound. My guy has less than beautiful feet and is sound, so I guess it works. SprinklerBandithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02948487857418394022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-69358875213333546832012-09-13T15:32:09.234-05:002012-09-13T15:32:09.234-05:00Clips are supposed to help hold the shoe on, but i...Clips are supposed to help hold the shoe on, but in doing so put pressure on wherever they are located (toe, quarters). In Saga's case, the farrier used clips because he wanted to provide more heel support and use fewer nails (6 instead of 8). I really don't know what's "better" for the horse.<br /><br />I should also point out that quarter clips are kind of a misnomer. If you're looking at the hoof and the toe is 12 noon, the quarters are at 3 and 9, not where the clips are in the picture. So quarter clips actually put more pressure on the toe area than the quarter area, I think.<br /><br />Clear as mud? ;) jenjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01737679332792618499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-51358143273946622332012-09-13T14:56:59.779-05:002012-09-13T14:56:59.779-05:00So, do quarter clips add or remove pressure from t...So, do quarter clips add or remove pressure from the quarters? East Boundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17921800983816978185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-26088023231130000262012-09-13T10:49:59.201-05:002012-09-13T10:49:59.201-05:00I know nothing about shoeing, trimming. But I am ...I know nothing about shoeing, trimming. But I am learning, and yes, those shoes do look medieval. But sound is good! I took a bit of a blog break, but am back with our "daily routine.." Not as exciting as most blogs, but we are slowly learning. :)Margarethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00007201357693227614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-1201956821661640482012-09-13T06:13:12.024-05:002012-09-13T06:13:12.024-05:00LL, I know, they look horrible don't they? I t...LL, I know, they look horrible don't they? I try not to think about it too much, because when he was barefoot and his feet looked great, he was dead lame. And they're just regular shoes with quarter clips on them, nothing special at all.<br /><br />The 'pushing up the quarters' problem is indeed from too much pressure on the quarters at the shoe. BF horses generally don't make contact with the ground on the quarters - you can usually slide a credit card under the quarters if they are standing on concrete. Shod horses' walls make contact all the way around the shoe. I have seen what's called "three point shoeing" with the toe and heels touching the shoe - the idea is to take pressure off the quarters. Not sure if it's any better/worse than any other shoeing style?jenjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01737679332792618499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3204283740895921092.post-5924963185662480742012-09-13T06:05:33.515-05:002012-09-13T06:05:33.515-05:00Oh my Goodness... those SHOES. They look medieval....Oh my Goodness... those SHOES. They look medieval.... but I guess if he's sound? I'm having that same 'pushing up at the quarters' problem with Maest- what exactly is that from? Too much pressure on the quarter walls? <br /><br />Glad to have you back writing posts!Leeshhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08504626914889252270noreply@blogger.com